Ryan
Legend
This is my poochyena, his grandfather was a houndoom
Posts: 364
Hated Characters: hyena
Fav Characters: weed, gin, rigel,
Fav Story: GNG, GDW, GDW; O, SSY
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Post by Ryan on Nov 22, 2014 22:30:23 GMT -7
i have noticed most females have puppies in the stories and thats about all they do. cross, reika, sakura, koyuki, lydia, kotobuki, yamabuki, fuji. or they die such as the female dogs that where in hakuros pack when the russian dogs attacked they all chose to commit suicide. sakura was no longer needed and died of sickness, chako was no longer seen after she chose not to be with sasuke. in the start of the monkey arc two females where killed bella became a pet, minnie drowned, lenny died after no longer having a reason to live, yuki was wounded in a rock fall. lucy was only see long enough to make sakura leave. really females have barely any major parts.
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Post by kaiarmydog on Nov 23, 2014 13:27:33 GMT -7
I thought that too!! I mean to start with a thought that she would be cool and kickass, but she ended up being completely useless. And the only female character of Yoshi's that seems to have power is Hono, but she appears just once. If there's anything a hate the most about Yoshi's mangas, is the way that he uses female chaarcters in the stories.
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Post by Ace on Dec 5, 2014 19:12:33 GMT -7
Interesting point about how Cross might have meant to be male in the beginning. Personally, I agree with everyone stating how much potential Cross had. When I watched the anime as a child, I personally liked the scene where she saves Chibi. She's a tough girl, but she won't allow an innocent puppy to die. But then the entire argument of 'because of a woman' becomes an issue. After being almost halfway through the 5th volume of GNG, I feel like her character is very conflicting. I would understand why Cross would want to back out/take a less active role to protect her unborn young, and even if she tries to do so (or is told to do so), that motivation is very inconsistent. I get why she would try to avoid a fight with Beth because the pups might get hurt, but at the same time, she almost drowns twice. At the moment I feel like her inconsistency is what bothers me the most; if she wanted to back down to protect her pups, sure thing, I would get that, but she doesn't stick to that argument. Instead, I think Cross just turns into a very awkward character that does the complete opposite of what she said she would...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 13:03:49 GMT -7
First let's consider that the Kai brothers are supposed to be really, really strong. Gin wins by luck because there was a lake nearby, and even Ben (a general) has trouble. So she's justified. Yet you're all right, she's inconsistent, and it's sad that the author didn't develope her character better. It could have been really interesting to see how she fits among all the males. A great opportunity, wasted. But am I allowed to state an unpopular opinion here? I've seen SO many movies ruined by weak female characters. I'm not saying I dislike female characters in general, just that they are often used only to create a cheap love story, or conflict, or the "damsel in distress" theme. And I'm sick of all these stereotypical women. So for me, a story with hardly any female characters is better than a story with a female character that is merely used to move the plot forward, create conflict, or put an unnecessary love story sub-plot. And one last thought: while I agree with everything you say, let's keep in mind that GNG talks about a war. In this environment, too many females would be out of place. Again, too many potentially good movies were ruined for this reason (think Pearl Harbor). I hope you get my point.
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Post by M-92 Mantis on Jan 18, 2015 14:05:01 GMT -7
So for me, a story with hardly any female characters is better than a story with a female character that is merely used to move the plot forward, create conflict, or put an unnecessary love story sub-plot. And one last thought: while I agree with everything you say, let's keep in mind that GNG talks about a war. In this environment, too many females would be out of place. I hope you get my point. I totally agree with these. It's mainly the fandom's obsession with wanting more females but not understanding it's not Yoshi's thing on writing a strong character. He specifically said in an interview he wouldn't ever consider writing a strong female character. While I do not agree with this, it isn't his job to start writing differently from his opinions and beliefs just because other countries and cultures are more progressive. Women did not fight in most wars to begin with primarily because they were defending the home, the children, or were at a disadvantage to men when it came to close combat. That's not Yoshi being biased, that's history. There are female characters Yoshi has written that I like, even though they are not 'fighters' like Cross is. Women should be characters, not self-inserts pandering to fans who only want an equally ignorant belief that women aren't worth anything unless they are just as strong and powerful and bloodthirsty as a male warrior. Cross was the closest thing to that but she hardly should be considered much of a character just because of her gender. Women should not be added for some sort of fantasy for the plot, I agree. They should not be there just to be love interests with no influential impact on the plot or story, they should not be there to make a man look better, and they should not be there to make men look worse. Characters should be just that - characters, with personalities and consistent temperaments to make them unique. Being a man or a woman should never make a character more interesting or hyped over if they don't have a good personality to back it up. That's my main gripe with Cross, she lost all of her potential as being equal to most of the men because when she was given copious opportunities to show us her bravery, courage and fearlessness, she ended up being completely helpless to two minor criminals when she had been shown to easily take down other soldiers in battle. If she had decided to retreat from the battles once she was pregnant, I wouldn't have seen anything wrong with this. I personally was mainly disgusted by the fact that she nearly killed herself twice while pregnant and didn't think to ever protect the children still inside her. In the end, the narration and Ohu never even gave her credit for giving the message to Gin, and her little 'arc' in the story seemed completed. Cross's character to me, in short, was all bark and no bite, so I didn't see her as a good character just from a character's stance, not because I was expecting a warrior goddess who was better than all the men.
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Post by Kit on Jan 18, 2015 17:54:07 GMT -7
I've seen SO many movies ruined by weak female characters. I'm not saying I dislike female characters in general, just that they are often used only to create a cheap love story, or conflict, or the "damsel in distress" theme. And I'm sick of all these stereotypical women. So for me, a story with hardly any female characters is better than a story with a female character that is merely used to move the plot forward, create conflict, or put an unnecessary love story sub-plot.) There are female characters Yoshi has written that I like, even though they are not 'fighters' like Cross is. Women should be characters, not self-inserts pandering to fans who only want an equally ignorant belief that women aren't worth anything unless they are just as strong and powerful and bloodthirsty as a male warrior. Cross was the closest thing to that but she hardly should be considered much of a character just because of her gender. Women should not be added for some sort of fantasy for the plot, I agree. They should not be there just to be love interests with no influential impact on the plot or story, they should not be there to make a man look better, and they should not be there to make men look worse. Characters should be just that - characters, with personalities and consistent temperaments to make them unique. Being a man or a woman should never make a character more interesting or hyped over if they don't have a good personality to back it up. That's my main gripe with Cross, she lost all of her potential as being equal to most of the men because when she was given copious opportunities to show us her bravery, courage and fearlessness, she ended up being completely helpless to two minor criminals when she had been shown to easily take down other soldiers in battle. These. I completely agree, and I honestly don't mind it being all male characters, with one or two females. Like Rascal said, Yoshi has written female characters of value, whom I really enjoy, and do important things beyond talking smack and charging into battle. Like Reika refused to break down under Hougen's "care," didn't want to leave John, gave Weed comforting advice, and was willing to take on Hougen to save her friends. Koyuki supported Weed, made sure he was happy and emotionally strong, even during harsh wars, and essentially helped him move past the trauma of his mother's death. She was also willing to attach the hybrid bear to protect several incapacitated characters and the children, and let them escape so that they could continue helping Weed in things she couldn't (the battle). They're strong and useful in their own way, and I don't think characters like that should be devalued, even if Yoshi's writing overall makes many sexist comments. That being said, I completely agree that adding women just for the sake of adding women is wrong, and counter-productive. They almost always end up being faux action girls (talking and looking awesome, to give the illusion they're doing something, when they've actually contributed nothing of value), or cardboard cutout love interests. Usually both are completely pointless, and if that's the only option, I'd personally just rather they weren't there at all. Of course I'm not saying we shouldn't be moving towards more progressive standards, and women need good role models, too, but honestly again, if those are the options... no thanks. As a side note in response to Kai brothers comment, I believe Ben wasn't fighting back on purpose? Or am I remembering wrong? Kind of to let them get it out of their systems and see that he wasn't going away until they listened, since he wanted them to decide for themselves, rather than make them remember he saved them and demand they repay him. I think Gin was also inexperienced in real combat at that point, so he had to use resourcefulness, but that one is speculation.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2015 1:40:26 GMT -7
Kit I can't remember that part well, but Ben looked pretty pinned down. Perhaps he wasn't fighing back as you said, but he was in trouble nontheless. That's what I think at least. As for Gin: while inexperienced, he was already supposed to be a strong dog. He fought a bear with Daisuke, and was accepted in Ohu where we know they have high standards. Even Ben states they're strong.
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Post by Ace on Feb 17, 2015 14:28:28 GMT -7
I remember Smith or Great talking about it being Ben's strategy to let the opponent use up their energy and then go in for the kill; that was part of the reason why Ben was a good fighter. It was said in the Danish dub though so I can't guarantee it is the actual reason or not the Danish dubbers "take" on it. Aside from that, I agree with what everyone has said (so boring). I like that we're moving towards more role models for especially young girls, but personally, I would rather have a well-constructed character, who just happens to be female, than empty promises in the shape of a badass fighter. Arguably, one may argue that the killing in GNG is not exactly "healthy", so it is nice with a female character to contrast it. Cross' inconsistency is my main beef with her. Not saying as a female fan of Yoshi's works that I don't feel sliightly offended at some of his comments, but then again, Japanese society has very different views on women and their role. One of my friends studies Japanese and she told me the kanji for 'husband' was the same as 'master', so... Being a stay at home mum is still very common in Japan, as far as I know, which is something very uncommon in Denmark, so... you can definitely sense some clashes of cultures. It will be interesting to speculate whether or not Yoshi will "pamper" to his international/Scandinavian readers after GNG has been translated into Finnish.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2015 15:32:41 GMT -7
That's a good point, Ace. The Japanese culture is very different from ours, but I don't know much about it. I'm sure Kit knows more. And I confirm that the same thing about Ben's strategy is said in the manga, so the Danish dub got that part right. Since my last comment I read it, and found out I was wrong about Ben being in trouble. I still think the Kai brothers are strong, though. But before I make any more mistakes, I'll wait until I finish reading the manga before I draw my conclusions on Cross.
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Cato
6 months
At least I have my waifu.
Posts: 36
Fav Characters: Kurotora
Fav Story: Ginga : Nagareboshi Gin
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Post by Cato on Dec 5, 2015 18:28:53 GMT -7
Sorry for not saying anything in a while when I said I would - I tend to procrastinate. Like, a lot. I'll try to get back to you about the other post about Yoshi's art style, but for now, i'm going to put up a little theory about Cross's role in GNG. While I do understand everyone else's reasons as well - how too many women are out of place, how Ginga isn't expected to have anything deep and overly meaningful (like I tend to do all too much, I suppose I romanticize things sometimes) and Cross is not a warrior lady that should deserve main role, I just think that maybe there would have been a lot more to her character. Not just her, but everyone else's, too. Actually, I might want to see more about John, or maybe Smith when he was a pet. How did Terry lose his eye? Why did Riki choose the place he did, because it had a high place for him to stand and look manly? Since there was a thread about how the character Cross was handled, I just thought that it would be okay to give it a whirl and show what I think may be happening, while adding a little bit of headcanon in to make things flow well and seem plausible. Nothing too big, for example "Ben sometimes chases his tail when he gets excited, which happens when he gets really happy," or "Kurotora has bad depth perception." I tried to find reasons why Cross acted why she did and said what she did, relating it to her past and her personality. I'm going by what's in the manga, and will put the actual post in a spoiler since it's so big. I'll separate different paragraphs so it's easier to read. I might do a bit more of this in the future, headcanon reasons why characters do what they do (in GNG, not counting GDW since I haven't read that one yet)... I might make a separate post for smaller ones, like the Ben one later, if it doesn't take up space. I have a small theory about Cross - she brings up herself how she is female whenever she does something that being female would be a hinderance in. For example, when she went in to save Chibi, she says that "as a female, she could stand sorrow and war, but not a child crying."
This, I believe, among other instances also said by Mr. Narrator, is just her making excuses as to why she rushed ahead and jumped into a chasm to save Chibi (and i'm guessing Wilson too).
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She seems highly regarded in the pack when we first meet them, so this theory might not be possible, but i'm going to use this reason as a small possibility.
Maybe, being the only woman in the pack, she was constantly called out and sometimes picked on or ostracized for being female. The males who bothered always asked her what a lady was doing in the army, telling her that she should go home to her pups instead of join them doing a man's job, etc. In a way, they were correct, and had something of a reason to wonder, seeing as she was a rarity among them, which would generate chatter.
After constantly being taunted, she eventually saw being female as synonymous to being weak or not strong / brave enough. Basically, she let their taunting get to her. So, in order to compensate for her being female, she tries not to think on it too much and tries her hardest to be seen as one of the men. Sometimes, however, she tries a bit too hard, and it ends up not being anywhere near convincing.
Thus, making Ben promise not to bring up her being a female or her pups and getting very angry at him when he does. Talking big and sizing up the others helped her project an air that she had everything under control and was a soldier of Ohu who deserved the title.
In addition, she responds negatively (in early chapters, before the Kai arc and some onwards) toward anyone who calls her out for being a female and tries to get it in at random points, "Don't underestimate me! I'm your opponent!" And struggles to back up her big words. (She attacks Chuutora and demands that he fight her seriously, I'd say she might have been a bit desperate to regain the image she had before Chuutora found out she was female - again, trying so hard to make them believe something that isn't true.)
Eventually, she was admired for her stubbornness and her work at hunting. There are still some jokes here and there, and the past hostility has died down a lot since when she first joined Ohu, but she is still sensitive about the subject to the point where she is angered about it and afraid to let on anything "weak," even if it was her love for Ben, which she was afraid of telling anyone about (more on this later).
On the flip side of the coin, she is also respected for being kind and thoughtful, as well as useful, brave, loyal and wasn't difficult to get along with. Most dogs in the pack appreciated her and stopped hounding her, as she hunted their meals.
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Just before the Moss arc, Smith calls her out for Ben having a crush on her ("Ben won't like you if you do that," along those lines), and she tries to deny any romantic connection between them by chasing Smith out of the den. However, there is that single glance between Ben and her where it looks like "Oh... huh."
She is shown in several instances to have strong feelings for him, suggesting that she may be romantically interested in him as well, and the two might be more involved than anyone sees.
So, she might have been embarrassed about telling anyone for fear of them saying that it was "just like a girl" to fall for the a strong male like Ben, thinking that no-one would consider that she fell in love with him for other reasons (and him vice versa) other than "he is a male and I am a female, it must be fate." She feared that they would think this and she would never get anyone to think otherwise.
Stereotypical, in her eyes, and it would be rather awkward to come out and do what she said she wouldn't (say, one of the men said that she would obviously end up pregnant as a female in a pack entirely of males, she denies this and says that it wouldn't happen - she has her puppies back at home and her old mate was her last. This ended up not being true.)
But it's obvious that Ben does care for her on a romantic level, and she for him. He is a bit shy about it (not in a stuttering way, or course, but how he dismisses it after being caught licking Cross' fur when he said that it was dirty - the panel that he turns back and licks his paw, quickly changing the subject.) and doesn't lash out or deny that he loves her, just turns the topic to something else.
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She can't hide her relationship with Ben after Moss tells her that he knows that she is pregnant with his puppies. This, she knew, but tried to tell him that it wasn't true, and in a way, she was trying to convince herself as well as Moss.
Now, this might be a little far-fetched and overthinking it (Wow, now i'm saying this?), but maybe when she was looking so upset, hanging her head while sitting on that big rock structure, she was contemplating her relationships with her comrades and how things were going to change, and how hopeless she saw her situation.
She was partially worrying for Ben, as she was afraid of humans herself and still worried that they might hurt him. She was scared of a young boy in the Benizakura arc, and if Ben, blind, is going into a city of humans, she would of course be scared for his life. Especially to the vet, the people known for cutting up and performing strange things on animals' bodies.
She might have also been trying to come to terms with her condition and how everyone would think of her when they eventually find out she was expecting. What would everyone else say? That "she was a woman, after all" and that it was natural for her to fall for a man (who she actually really loved, she wasn't ashamed of that at all, just not ready to tell anyone yet) and become mother to his children. To her, her pregnancy felt claustrophobic and cornered her into a place that she hated and felt small in - that is, being "a female" and not "Cross". She didn't want to be "strongest dog" or anything like that, and she didn't hate being a female, she only hated when that was all she was.
She might have been angry at herself for letting it (pregnancy) happen while she still had the duty of vengeance to her dead comrades and was still a soldier of Riki, expected to fulfill her duties as one of his men. Wasn't she the one who kept insisting that she was just like the men, equal to them in every way?
Thinking about it while Ben was gone and she was feeling stressed and at her lowest, she might have also been angry at herself for hurting her unborn children, planned or not, whether she wanted them or not, they were still her - and Ben's - children, yet she had gotten poisoned by Akame (not her fault, but her sorrows overshadowed this fact) and behaving recklessly in a way that might have hurt the puppies. Babies, her and Ben's. Proof of their love... the one that she was ridiculed into saying would never happen, and probably after the final battle, wouldn't.
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Now, she liked children, was fond of her own, thought of Gin as her son and was proud when she was told by a comrade that Gin looked up to her like his mother.
Gin has only met one other female dog in his lifetime before meeting the pack -Fuji, his mom. I think that it would make sense that older, nice, female dog who also acts as a teacher and mentor (think hunting for lunch with Cross) would make him think of his mother, and thusly feeling a strong, if misguided / unintentional love for her as if she were an adoptive parent.
It said that Gin had forgotten what it felt like to be loved by his mother beyond sleeping next to her and his siblings and feeling warm and loved. Maybe he missed this, and felt (though he would never regret his training) upset that he missed that stage of life and never got to feel the love of a parent. Like how it says that he misses his father and wanted to hug him like a child when he saw him (before sneaking in the back of Futago Pass). A childish desire to be loved suppressed by harsh training to be a living weapon against Akakabuto. Cross, however, brought some of this back, at times, and both were okay with it.
This might explain why Gin wanted to stop Chuutora from fighting her - no one wants to see their Mom get beaten up, much less choked to death by a creepy stranger who they just met!
(Oh, and fighting Benizakura - Gin says that he was "ready from the beginning [to die]", and Cross looks shocked and unable to say anything - possibly from hearing him repeat what she said said to him when she was fighting Chuutora - she was she was ready from the start to die for her pack. This might have been a massive callback to her, the earlier days when they were first getting on their mission and on the pack's first fight, when things weren't in as deep as they were, she wasn't concerned deeply about being pregnant, and Gin was still "the kid" that saw her as "mom" and "teacher.")
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About not being able to stand hearing Chibi cry - he was thrown off a cliff and nearly shaken to death! What's strange is why nobody else seemed to be shocked about it and were more busy with Kurojaki (but he was going berserk and threw Moss, so I guess that he'd be a bigger priority than a dead puppy.)
When Cross saved Chibi and Wilson, she couldn't stand to hear him cry because he reminded her of her own children crying, and she saw no shame is saying this aloud, but still used the excuse of being female as she was so used to having to do it in front of an audience.
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When she was swimming to Shikoku to relay the message to Gin, it seemed that she was on the fence about whether she actually cared about her puppies or not, after getting up out of her depression that other night.
Maybe, before leaving, she decided that the army was a bigger priority, and that after the war, she and Ben could try again, if she felt up for it, or both of them were alive for it. Thus her feeling apathy and ignoring the fact that she is pregnant and acting as if she never was.
With all of this, she seemed ashamed and didn't want to talk about it when Benizakura told her about how he could tell she was pregnant (possibly reminder her of something that she didn't want to be reminded of). But of course, didn't correct him - it's not like he'd know, and he saved her life, it's best not to be rude. She takes quick looks around, as if making sure that no-one heard that.)
Sometimes, she would remember that she was pregnant and think a little about if that would hinder her ability (the Oliver scene). Maybe this was just scattered thoughts and her worries and confusions about being expecting puppies without the help of a master - and being in a completely different situation, outside of her home, I suppose that it's expected that she would be worried about what was going to happen to her, or if something bad would happen (she'd get hurt by childbirth without a human to help, how would she keep her puppies safe, how would she eat enough to sustain herself and her kids, and how would she travel with the pack.) There might have been a few spelling errors - I wrote this up on a whim, and decided that now was as good a time as any to make my re-introduction. If this belongs anywhere else, please tell me! If it's too long, would I be able to put it somewhere where it might be better suited?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2015 0:02:42 GMT -7
Bravo, Cato, that was a masterpiece! I love headcanons like yours. It's detailed, and makes a lot of sense.
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Cato
6 months
At least I have my waifu.
Posts: 36
Fav Characters: Kurotora
Fav Story: Ginga : Nagareboshi Gin
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Post by Cato on Dec 6, 2015 3:06:01 GMT -7
Thank you, very much! I might be able to make more of these elsewhere, and I might update on the Cross one as I get further into the manga, and into the Wolf arc when it's released in the future. I like writing essays like these, so there might be a few more sometime as well. I really felt as though maybe there was a sound reason (though probably impossible) for Cross to be acting how she did. I tried to bring in her relationships, what she feared and how that had a factor in her role without making her seem overly weak and still a believable character with believable weaknesses and strengths. But again, thank you!
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hotdanimus
10 years
Posts: 125
Hated Characters: the villians
Fav Characters: Gin, Weed, GB, Hiro
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Post by hotdanimus on Feb 5, 2016 17:28:02 GMT -7
I'm not sure how much this helps, but I believe that the reason Cross is lacking those skills that got her in the ohu army is for her to serve a motherly role to Gin. Throughout GNG, she is shown to try to either aid Gin or convince him not to try anything extreme, such as fighting Benizakura. She even shows signs of rage whenever Gin is believed to be killed. But hey, it's just a theory...a Ginga Theory!
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