Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2015 11:49:41 GMT -7
Kit I didn't know Matagi did research. As I said my knowledge comes from books and modern training with sled dogs, I don't know how it used to be back then in rural Japan. So I trust him/her on this. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly: yes, if the exact same training of the manga were done in real life, it would be very ineffective. As you said there would be bone damage, as Gin was a few weeks old as the training began. What I'm saying is that beating was common practice to beat dogs during training until not long ago. Also, the life of a dog wasn't that important either: in Greenland, for example, natives left sled dogs on an island during summer, with no food. The weak would die, and the survivors would eat them. That was common until the arrival of the white man, since there wasn't enough food to feed all the dogs. Another example: during the first few attempts to reach the south pole by sled dogs, the explorers left the coast with over 50 dogs. And the sled got lighter, they'd kill the weaker dogs, so them and their team would have something to eat on the way back. So while ineffective in real life (for all the reasons you rightfully stated), Gohei's training wasn't all that cruel compared to some other training that was actually used in the past. Then again: I have no idea how training methods were in the 80's in rural Japan, and if someone has made more research than me, I'd trust them. To clear one point: I firmly believe that this kind of training training is outdated, and beating dogs is useless and cruel (and illegal in many countries). We respect our dogs as much as they respect us. And you don't sound blunt/snippy at all.
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Post by Kit on Jan 17, 2015 14:48:43 GMT -7
Kit I didn't know Matagi did research. As I said my knowledge comes from books and modern training with sled dogs, I don't know how it used to be back then in rural Japan. So I trust him/her on this. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly: yes, if the exact same training of the manga were done in real life, it would be very ineffective. As you said there would be bone damage, as Gin was a few weeks old as the training began. What I'm saying is that beating was common practice to beat dogs during training until not long ago. Also, the life of a dog wasn't that important either: in Greenland, for example, natives left sled dogs on an island during summer, with no food. The weak would die, and the survivors would eat them. That was common until the arrival of the white man, since there wasn't enough food to feed all the dogs. Another example: during the first few attempts to reach the south pole by sled dogs, the explorers left the coast with over 50 dogs. And the sled got lighter, they'd kill the weaker dogs, so them and their team would have something to eat on the way back. So while ineffective in real life (for all the reasons you rightfully stated), Gohei's training wasn't all that cruel compared to some other training that was actually used in the past. Then again: I have no idea how training methods were in the 80's in rural Japan, and if someone has made more research than me, I'd trust them. To clear one point: I firmly believe that this kind of training training is outdated, and beating dogs is useless and cruel (and illegal in many countries). We respect our dogs as much as they respect us. And you don't sound blunt/snippy at all. I'm glad I didn't seem rude, I was worried I did. I definitely don't claim to be an expert or know everything about dogs. I have no doubt that crueler methods have been used, for sure. I think Gohei was definitely supposed to be the old guy who was stuck in the past and used ancient methods, since no one seemed to like them or fine them effective. I think the biggest problem people had with the entire thing was that nothing seemed to call him out on anything, or give any indication that he wasn't the greatest man ever for drinking a huge bottle of alcohol and then beating his weeks-old puppy with it. I think people might have gotten less upset. It felt kind of like it was being condoned. Thank you for the info! It's sad, but interesting to know how far we've come with animals. I don't think Matagi necessarily did research on dog psychology/anatomy, but it seems from Rascal's research (much of which can be found here, if you're interested, by the way. that they at least considered them invaluable partners who helped them with their livelihood. I've heard Matagi considered their dogs "their children" but that may be romanticized.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2015 0:47:15 GMT -7
Yes I think so too, Gohei was supposed to be stuck in the past but at least, Gohei gets thigs done. When there's a bear mauling everyone in town and you have only one hunter (who also happens to be the best bear dogs trainer), then you pretty much forgive anything he does. They may not like him, but they need him. They pretended not to see, hiding from the truth. That's what a lot of Germans did in WW2: they didn't necessarly like Hitler or approve his methods, but since they were living a comfortable life, they turned their head at what was happening on the front lines and concentration camps. Thank you for the link to Rascal's research, I'll read it. Now that you mention it you're right, in Asia they had a higher opinion of dogs generally. For example, for the mongols dogs were part of the family, and it was generally thought they should be respected as people. When a dog died, the funeral was very similar to a human's. So yeah, we go from an extreme (Greenland) to another (Mongolia), and since I had no idea how dogs were treated in rural Japan, I accepted what Gohei did as normal.
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Zeki
10 years
Posts: 122
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Post by Zeki on Nov 19, 2015 12:12:01 GMT -7
Ahh, anyone who spent time on SFF has heard my rant about Gohei's 'training' methods, but my complaints are rather similar to Rascal's anyway, so I shan't make you read them.
Beating such a young pup would give it terribly weak bones, and it certainly wouldn't make the dog loyal to you. Terrified of you, sure... I feel so bad for baby Gin... I can sort of excuse a lot of his later dickish behavior given that he has been terribly abused since puphood. Gin's a little damaged and weird.
Sometimes I feel that Yoshi is defending Gohei's methods, but he also has Daisuke confront him and in GDW Daisuke seems very much of the persuasion that dogs should be treated kindly, so I'm not sure if Yoshi really condones what Gohei does... I dunno, man.
As for the bear attacks themselves, they are based on an actual event where a Japanese brown bear terrorized a village and the local hunters (and those recruited from around) seemed pretty inept at killing the damn thing.
Something I STILL don't understand is the bear meat/Rikou story. Okay, he wants Gin to eat bear meat at a young age to overcome his fears, but Rikiou ate bear meat from puphood and subsequently died because he didn't have ENOUGH fear? Doesn't that mean feeding pups bear meat is bad? Am I missing something? D: 'If he's still this scared, it will be hard to instill a wariness of bears into him.' What? D8
I do like Daisuke's line that all this only being done to Gin because of his brindle fur.
Next question, why is John's intro chapter called 'the White Rival?' Neither John nor Hidetoshi are white.
All in all, I think the first volume is pretty solid, if you forcefully ignore the blatant dog abuse.
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Post by M-92 Mantis on May 25, 2016 13:06:45 GMT -7
Okay, so BIG news, everyone! Our secret project has finally been completed and it's replaced the old volume download link with the newest one. It's a complete reboot of volume 1 of GNG!This reboot has been retranslated, retypeset, and now includes the ending commentary given by manga artist, Buichi Terasawa, as he explains how he met Yoshihiro Takahashi and their friendship. All of the giant, ugly, outdated typesetting I used to use years ago has been fixed and cleaned so that all of the older volumes of Ginga Nagareboshi Gin look just as nice as our latest ones. I want to give a huge thank you to the scanlation staff for their hard work, dedication, and helping me with the project during our summer vacation, as this is one of the only projects I can do as a lone translator without our main one to help me. We also are using new fonts for certain situations; these will be updated in all of GNG and further volume reboots are being done as we speak. Reboot volumes will be released during summer vacation as we work on them. Update: An improved ToC has been added. Our new logo has been added. We've translated the opening page copyright and publishing info. Chapters 1 through 3 have been nearly entirely rewritten for better translation. Chapters 4 through 6 have had the same treatment with less past mistakes and poor wording. Double pages have been fixed so that they don't have a single broken line between them - a huge thanks to Ace for that! Buichi Terasawa's four page interview has been entirely translated into a two page English one, with the Japanese one also included. I hope you all enjoy!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 13:18:16 GMT -7
Suuuper cool, Rascal! Here's a good excuse to read GNG again. For the third time.
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Post by Ace on May 25, 2016 14:40:59 GMT -7
A huge thanks to everyone on the team! It was awesome revisiting this series and giving it some needed brush-up. I highly recommend everyone gives it an extra read ;D even if you've already read our old vol. 1 translation.
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Post by Kit on May 25, 2016 14:44:31 GMT -7
Hooray for pretty reboots! Huge thanks to everyone who helped out with this - you're all too awesome for words!
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18Gingasoldier
Pack Member
Into Animashes, editing, animation, few animes
Posts: 229
Hated Characters: Kamakiri, Bella
Fav Characters: John, Hougen
Fav Story: GNG, GDW.
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Post by 18Gingasoldier on Jun 27, 2016 13:46:06 GMT -7
Yay! I don't know why I haven't seen these news before! *Oh dang it, I REALLY need to catch up with the newest releases, dirpity derp* I'll download this volume right now ^-^
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