Tesshin in GDW

[Deleted]

I was re-watching episode 13 of the GDW anime, and a little discrepancy caught my eye.

So it is my understanding that the little pup whom we meet in GNG is actually Tesshin whom we meet again in GDW as the leader of a (hopefully reformed) Koga Clan. If this is true then it follows that Tesshin's father is Kurojaki, the cannibal. This is where the problem arises: in the English translation of that episode he says "Our Elder gladly let my father and I go to Ohu once before". However, if he is the little pup that we saw in GNG, then his father didn't go anywhere (except into a burning building), and there was no mention of a Clan Elder. Not sure if this is a mistake just made in the anime or if it's something that's cropped up in the printed work as well.

However if it's not a mistake, and Tesshin is Kurojaki's son....

Just thought that this was a rather funny thing for Tesshin to say, and I've never heard anybody mention it before, so just thought I'd remedy that.

[M-92 Mantis]

The clan elder in the anime changed much from who he was in the manga. I don't remember if the anime mentions it, but the elder was one of the soldiers who jumped into the building with Kurojaki, but didn't die, and instead was horribly disfigured from the flames instead of just looking like an old Tesshin with eyebrows. He is called the elder because he is one of the last - or literally THE last - surviving of the older generation; he wouldn't have been an elder during Kurojaki's reign. He was a normal soldier under his command. The Kouga and Iga Clans also seemed to have no interest in Ohu, and were not affiliated in any way until Ben and Akame joined forces, and later when Weed and Tesshin in GDW. The only time it is mentioned of Kurojaki going anywhere else was when he was captured by a circus owner, and killed Wilson's family in the process of escaping. Tesshin was not with him.

As for 'going to Ohu', I'm not sure what he'd mean by that. I'm guessing this is most likely some weird anime change, or maybe a mistranslation (though I'd doubt it, the English subs were rather good).

For people who can read the GDW manga, I'm sure Kit or The Tiger of Kai might be able to answer it for you. I don't know the full story, but I know in GNG at least, Kurojaki never once joined Ohu, and Tesshin was adopted by them as an infant.

Which video did you watch, and what timestamp is it when Tesshin says this? Maybe there's some sort of context I'm missing.

[Deleted]

This is the one I'm currently watching and the time-stamp for the quote is 19:52.

It may just be a mistranslation (or perhaps the result of my having watched GDW before GNG), because this is the first time after three re-watches of GDW (all from different sources) that this has jumped out at me as something odd.

I have also considered that maybe he was talking about Gin or whoever as an adoptive father, but in that case (in the anime at least) the Elder of the Koga Clan didn't 'allow' him to go anywhere, as he was too busy throwing himself into the flames of the burning Iga House to even notice when Gin's party left and took Tesshin with them.

And your description of the Elder in the anime-- it's so true. And reveals yet another inconsistency, since in the GNG anime all the Koga dogs except Tesshin and Kurojaki were completely brown (including the Elder) and yet suddenly in GDW, spots.Which is odd considering they manage to get the looks of the other Koga dogs right

[M-92 Mantis]

...I've never noticed that before, either, and I just rewatched GDW a few months ago. But I'm pretty sure these are the same English subs since there's only been one decent job at them; I've never seen other attempts.

My guess is it's some unnecessary anime change. I think they had to rewrite Tesshin's reasons for not joining (I know in the manga he's a total jerk and just hates everyone and refuses to join for a while), but it's kinda pointless since... he joins them in five seconds as soon as he says he can't. It might have involved a sub-plot or character not in the manga, so they had to remove it. Like how Tesshin DOESN'T save Gin even though he killed all the guards around his shed and can easily pick him up, and Gin gives a half-assed excuse that he can't walk anyway, blah blah blah. The whole reason that was a complete waste of time was because in the manga, a little dachshund named Mole sneaks in to check Gin's conditions, but because of his size he obviously can't carry him. Replacing that with an overpowered ninja dog just made the whole thing hilariously obvious that Tesshin could grab Gin and run.

So, so far, without someone who can listen to the translation and see if it's incorrect or to read that part in the manga, I'd just assume it was an anime change so Tesshin has an excuse not to join for five minutes to fool the watcher or something.

Sorry I can't be much help aside from that; in a few years I'll finally be able to answer these questions myself.

[Deleted]

That's okay. Thanks for the help you can give. I've never had access to this part of the manga before, so that whole thing with Mole is completely new to me. I did always wonder why Tesshin didn't just carry Gin away with him, though, considering that later on Kyoshiro can do it while badly injured. I've also always wondered why Weed and his friends didn't get mad at Tesshin for this complete failure.

And hopefully in a few years I too will be an independent Japanese speaker/reader.

[Kit]

If I'm remembering correctly, in the manga, Tesshin fights Weed upon their first meeting because their fathers were enemies according to the elder (who was indeed an old Kouga who had survived being burned alive) and the remaining Kouga who were also sons of the ones who had thrown themselves into the fire and hated Ohu and Akame. I'm sorry that I really can't remember HOW Tesshin met the elder, or if it was even mentioned, but when he did, the elder told him that Ohu had killed his father, which caused Tesshin to part from them and start living with the Kouga again, even though he'd been living in Ohu until Sakura left.

The fight is ultimately stopped by Jerome saying he wants to live up to Smith's example, which prompts Tesshin to go into the spiel about how Smith was a traitor who lost Sakura and then allegedly ran away in shame, even though we all know he'd just been looking for her the entire time. Somehow, Weed telling Tesshin the real story about Smith being honorable causes peace, even though... it has nothing to do with why they were fighting in the first place...

Weed seals the deal by saving the elder from committing suicide after the burned Kouga realizes he's losing Tesshin. Some value of life speeches are enough to make everything better, as usual, aaaand that's pretty much the end of that. I really wish I could remember more... But in short: yes, it's just the anime being stupid and changing random things for absolutely no reason.

[Deleted]

Thank you for that! Although it still doesn't make much sense, because wasn't Tesshin raised by Gin and the other dogs of Ohu? So why would he suddenly change sides and start believing things told to him by this random dog that he's never even met before? Apparently Tesshin is not such a reliable guy.

[hotdanimus]

Jun 1, 2014 0:44:25 GMT -7 Kit said:

I'm sorry that I really can't remember HOW Tesshin met the elder, or if it was even mentioned, but when he did, the elder told him that Ohu had killed his father, which caused Tesshin to part from them and start living with the Kouga again, even though he'd been living in Ohu until Sakura left.

Not sure if that's true, because in a ginga wiki page on Tesshin, it said it was Sniper who told him that Ohu killed his father.

[Deleted]

Feb 4, 2016 5:41:34 GMT -7 hotdanimus said:

Not sure if that's true, because in a ginga wiki page on Tesshin, it said it was Sniper who told him that Ohu killed his father.

Uhm, how to say it... We clearly lack the basic common sense to begin discussing how wrong it is to use Ginga Wiki as a source.

[hotdanimus]

Feb 4, 2016 5:58:42 GMT -7 @bucciamarcia said:

Feb 4, 2016 5:41:34 GMT -7 hotdanimus said:

Not sure if that's true, because in a ginga wiki page on Tesshin, it said it was Sniper who told him that Ohu killed his father.

Uhm, how to say it... We clearly lack the basic common sense to begin discussing how wrong it is to use Ginga Wiki as a source.

Well, I already knew that wikis aren't the best source, but until a more reliable source is available, it's the only one I have to work with.

[Tora]

I can say this:
Chani told at GB about Sniper telling Tesshin. When she was at that colume of making the summeries.

[Chani]

Honestly, this whole part of the story is quite a mess and it's pretty clear that Yoshi didn't really think these things through.

It all started when Gin, John, Akame and Tesshin were traveling and met Sakura (though, later Gin tells Weed a backstory that completely retcons this. Good job, Yoshi). They all traveled together around Japan until Sakura got pregnant. Tesshin was ordered to escort her to Futago Pass and he did. Smith was currently in charge and he swore to take care of Sakura. However, she was lost thanks to Lucy's lie, and Smith ran to Tesshin and asked him if he had seen her. Smith said he'll find Sakura no matter what and asked Tesshin not to tell Gin about it. However, Smith disappeared and never returned because he lost his leg while rescuing GB (it's explained that he really wanted to escape the hospital to find Sakura, yet in vol 1 Smith is apparently a pet, just relaxing and not having any hurry anywhere and when he sees Weed he's just "huh looks like Gin, oh well whatever"... like I said, Yoshi just made these plot points without giving it much thought and there isn't much continuity).

Tesshin got really pissed and for some reason assumed that Smith just avoided responsibility and ran away like a coward (well, it's kind of implied that Tesshin didn't really see him as a brave warrior to begin with... which kind of makes sense, since Smith was the comic relief guy before all this happened). It's never explained, but Tesshin probably told Gin what happened, since Gin, Akame and John started to look for Sakura.

Then, Sniper told Tesshin some crap that in the past Gin had ordered his subordinates to beat Kurojaki to death. Nothing else is said about this part - not how it happened, where it happened and why Sniper was there, why the hell Sniper told him this and why Tesshin just believed this random guy.
Tesshin then started to believe that all the warriors in Ouu's army (at least the first generation) are hypocritical criminals, so he left Ouu and returned back to his original home Kouga, where he met the Elder. The Elder let him believe in the lie and encouraged his hatred, because the Elder HATED Ouu's army for ruining the Kouga's ancient mission and he believes that Gin indirectly caused Kurojaki's death.

Later Tesshin was angry when he saw Weed's group in his territory and attacked them at first, but retreated soon because he didn't wish to blame sons for their fathers' mistakes. He told Weed not to chase his subordinates, but because Weed followed them anyway, Tesshin attacked Weed again. When Smith was brought up, they started to talk about him and GB revealed the truth about Smith's disappearance. The others told Tesshin how Smith and John died and that Gin is now Hougen's prisoner. Weed asks Tesshin to help them, but Tesshin has turned silent and kind of shocked. Jerome says they're just wasting their time and Weed's army leaves. The Elder would like to kill them, but there's too many of them and so Tesshin lets them go. The narrator then mentions that the meeting of Weed was like a drop of clear water into Tesshin's hazy mind that's poisoned by the bitterness about his father's death.

Later, Mole is moving in a snowstorm as he tries to reach Weed so he can tell him Gin's final message. The little guy loses consciousness and he is found by the Kouga dogs. Mole speaks about Gin's message while he's asleep - and the message is that Gin isn't going to survive the winter and will probably die soon. Tesshin then cries, pretty much goes "No! Gin can't die! ;___;" and decides to go help Weed. He then goes to Weed and is like "Weed, we will give our lives for you. You are just like Gin. You made me realize that Gin is fighting for the sake of all dogs". No mention about that whole "Gin killed Kurojaki" thing.

Finally, Tesshin goes to tell the Elder that he has joined Weed and is going to war against Hougen. The Elder isn't happy about this of course and keeps telling Tesshin that Gin caused Kurojaki's death. Tesshin says it doesn't make sense because Ouu's army raised him and he says that he wants to fight for justice. Tesshin's subordinates agree and tell Elder that Ouu's army isn't as bad as he thinks (...even though in GNG they did kill all of the Kouga dogs, minus the few who jumped into the fire). The Elder is touched because Tesshin has become independent and has a pure heart and stuff... so he decides to tell the truth about Kurojaki's death. He apologizes for lying and says that obeying his mission is the only way he knows how to live.
The Elder then almost commits suicide by jumping into a waterfall, because that's the way of his ancestors and now his mission is completed. Weed and the others save him and Weed gives him a new mission, because now the Elder is apparently a good guy for some reason. Weed gives all of his pack's youngest puppies for Elder's care, even though the guy is a former (?) cannibal (fun fact: there were lots of puppies at first, but many volumes later many of them had disappeared... yeah, it's just Yoshi's mistake but still....).
The Elder is like "They'll grow into real men. Just like you, Weed! Ha hah! " wtf? So, now he likes Ouu's army for some reason and he doesn't have any problem with Gin or Akame anymore.

And thus all of these conflicts were solved... somehow.

[alpha]

I also found this odd at first, but thought out an explanation pretty quick, so my best guess is that Tesshin doesn't remember his cannibal father, and someone from Ohu lied to him that his father was a heroic hero who did go to Ohu. OR that "father" is actually just an adoptive-father, akame maybe, since he's a good father figure.